Creating a Career of Purpose with Dale Wilkinson

Sean Pritzkau: [00:00:00]  Hey there, and welcome to episode 11 of We Can Do This. I'm really excited for our episode today with Dale Wilkinson. Now Dale is the founder of Goodgigs. This really incredible platform that helps mission-driven companies connect with people who want to use their skills for good. 

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[00:00:21] Now in my own work, both through my business and through my previous roles, I've had the chance to work with a lot of creative people and a common theme I hear is that people, no matter if they're creative or not really want to use their skills, their talents, and their abilities and use them in alignment with the things that they care about.

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[00:00:40]And I think there is really a growing amount of people that not only want to use their skills for good, but are really beginning to be unwilling to use their skills for companies that don't align with their values. Now  this is really where Goodgigs comes into play.

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[00:00:56] Where if you're someone who has these skills, whether you're a designer, a developer, an illustrator, or some other role. And you're looking to work for a company that aligns with your values that are doing good in the world. Where do you find these companies? That's really where Goodgigs comes in and helps you find the opportunities to work for those kinds of companies. And then on the flip side, there are companies that want to hire great talent, but they also want to hire people who care about their mission.

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[00:01:24] Now Goodgigs is a platform that connects those people with one another. And there's a bunch of other features around that that you'll hear about all in this episode. So in this episode, we talk about how D ale started Goodgigs, how he came up with the idea, what were the steps he took to really pursue starting the company? And then how he actually started this company by bootstrapping the design and development of the platform using no code tools.

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[00:01:52]So really interesting stuff here. We had a great conversation. So I'm excited to jump into this episode with Dale Wilkinson.

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[00:02:12]All right. Hey there and welcome to the podcast. Today I am here with Dale Wilkinson, and Dale helps mission-driven companies connect with people who want to use their skills for good through his organization Goodgigs. As the host of the Goodmakers podcast Dale helps listeners to live their purpose through interviews with social entrepreneurs and change-makers. So Dale, welcome to the podcast,  

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[00:02:35] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:02:35] What is up Sean? How are you doing? Thanks for having me. 

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[00:02:38] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:02:38] I'm good. I'm really excited that you're on the show. For those listening Dale and I actually connected online. I think through Twitter, it's funny looking back and seeing how you with people, but the internet is an awesome place where you can meet kind of like like-minded people that end up being really great, awesome people to talk to. 

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[00:02:55]Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:02:55] I think it could have been Branden Harvey, you know, Brandon Harvey. Right. Good Good Good.

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[00:02:59] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:02:59] Yeah. So I'm connected. I'm a familiar with Brandon. I think we're loosely connected on Twitter and one of my best friends. He's really good friends with Brandon. So yeah, there was, when I saw that he was a guest on your podcast, there's an instant connection.

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[00:03:11] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:03:11] Yeah, that could have been it. And I did some placements in his newsletter that goes out to his community as for Goodgigs. So it could have been through that who knows, but also want to take the time to thank you for being a big supporter of Goodgigs our community. 

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[00:03:27] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:03:27] Yeah absolutely. I love it. So Dale for those listening has like I mentioned, has a podcast called Goodmakers. And I find that there's a community online of people that care about people. They care about the planet and they actually want to build businesses or initiatives that are beneficial, both for the people running them, kind of all parties and care about people on the planet.

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[00:03:50] So it's awesome community there. So , quick plug, even before we get started, if you're someone who is looking to work in a career that is purpose-driven then I don't think there's a better place online, that jump into then Goodgigs. And I think, I dunno, kind of like the elephant in the room.

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[00:04:07] I think that I've been hearing lately is there are companies out there where people are employed and they might have great talent. But the employees actually don't align with the company values. , there was this kind of this Basecamp exodus kinda hit, hit the internet, you know, a few months ago.

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[00:04:24]And I think there's just a growing desire for people to care about their work. And that's really where Dale's kind of in the space right now is connecting people with their purpose and their career. 

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[00:04:36]Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:04:36] I appreciate that shout out. Yeah. That's that's that's perfect, Sean. Like, I've been working on Goodgigs for coming up to two years now, but as you mentioned, especially in the last year, you know, the beginning of 2020 with obviously the pandemic hitting and a lot of companies letting go furloughing their employees and then the reckoning with Black Lives Matter and George Floyd, which also, you know, flared up across corporate America we saw a big realization that companies, a lot of companies just don't care for their employees and the employees realizing this, you know, because a lot of the times it's all smoke and mirrors, a lot of marketing in terms of what, you know, what these companies are doing and what they care about and that they care about the employees.

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[00:05:29] But when some issues happen, like the pandemic and Black Lives Matter, it's very clear that that employee's interests not at heart. So it's just in the last year. Yeah.

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[00:05:41] It's been it's been reassuring as well to kind of see people coming to terms with that, realizing that, Hey, life is short. I want to be able to work on something that I really care about.

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[00:05:54] I also want to create a career that I'm passionate about that pays me well. And, you know, That is not doing, doing damage to, you know, the folks around us or, or our planet as well. 

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[00:06:07] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:06:07] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. , people should not have to sacrifice their values to, to make a living. Right. And I'm so glad you're doing what you're doing.  So before we jump in to talking about Goodgigs and really how you've built this platform and really the work that you do, why don't you give us a picture of before you started Goodgigs, what were you doing?

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[00:06:26] Where were you living and what was kind of happening before you started Goodgigs?

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[00:06:31] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:06:31] Yeah, so I am, if you can pick up the accent, I'm an Ozzie living in Los Angeles. I've been here for just over 10 years now. So like I mentioned started Goodgigs a couple of years back coming up to two years. But previous to that here in Los Angeles, I had my own production company. So I was a creative producer working with a whole bunch of brands, helping produce their digital content, social media content all around video and. You know, helping brands, sell makeup and razors and stuff that I just, and, and energy drinks, you know, the people I got to work with both, you know, with the talent on the freelancer side, the crews that I'd put together. And also the clients that I'd work with actual people at these companies were all dope.

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[00:07:23] You know, it was so much fun to, you know, work with these people. I had a really awesome list of clients and people that I worked with and I enjoyed the creative process and producing, you know, creating these campaigns. But there was always kind of this idea that, you know, I wanted to do something more meaningful.

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[00:07:45] I've always had that entrepreneurial spirit. You know, I grew up in country Australia on a dairy farm. And I think part of it comes from that, you know, seeing my, seeing my mum and dad, you know, being. Dairy farmers, they themselves are entrepreneurs, you know, they're working for themselves. So I think, you know, that was that work ethic, you know, was conditioned into me at, at at an early age.

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[00:08:11] And, you know, when I was 19, I started my first business, 19, pretty stupid, no experience, no real understanding of business and just thought I would, you know, start one. And it was in the entertainment space. I wanted to put on music, festivals and events and and comedy nights and such. So just thought, Hey, I'm 19, I'll start it myself in my hometown, which Sean, it's like, it's a town of 5,000 people. So it's like whatever entertainment 

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[00:08:46] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:08:46] the ambition.

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[00:08:47] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:08:47] right. I just did, obviously didn't know my market, my audience. And my first event I put on this comedy gala. Right. And at this stage, I didn't know anything about producing budgeting for an event marketing. I knew nothing basically, and still thought I'd do it and put on this comedy gala and was able to find some big comedians that, you know, came from Melbourne.

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[00:09:14]They were big standup comics from the the comedy festival there and they agreed to do it. And so then I've got the talent fee and then I just kind of worked out backwards. It's like, all right, what, how do I advertise this thing?  Long story short. It was terrible.

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[00:09:30] Like it was that the event itself was awesome that the comedian ones was so dope, but like no, no one showed up. It was just, it was just my family and friends. And so I was at the door when people were coming and like, we held this in like the theater in my hometown. And it was just my family and friends that rocked up.

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[00:09:51] And as soon as the doors shut to start the event, I was like, man. tears in my eyes going, 

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[00:09:57] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:09:57] Yeah.

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[00:09:58] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:09:58] I really, I screwed this up. It was a great night. So I had to, you know, we had an afterparty, all that, but after that, I was like, well, now I'm in debt and I have to get a full-time job to pay that off.

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[00:10:13] And but that experience really kind of set, set everything off because I realized where I really. stuffed up was the marketing. I didn't know how to market this thing. So I actually got a job with the local newspaper, started doing sales and understanding advertising. And that really kind of set me off on my career trajectory, where I got into more marketing and the creative side of it.

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[00:10:36] And, you know, within a few months within that job, I knew what I should have done, you know, that business, but that kind of set me off in and, you know, got me to living in Los Angeles, having my own production company, actually understanding advertising and marketing 101 to be able to, you know, do it for some pretty big brands here. 

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[00:10:56] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:10:56] Yeah. Oh man. I love it. I want to, everyone needs a story, right? To keep you humble. Like this is what I came from. Right. I was a musician back in my, a little bit of my past life. And I, I remember playing so many empty venues right. In the beginning. You need like that kind of experience. And then you bounced back and worked in advertising.

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[00:11:15] Is there a story why, you know, moving to LA.

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[00:11:17]Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:11:17] Yeah, I think, you know, from, so I wasn't living in my hometown for the whole time. You know, only a couple years after I finished school, but being such a small town, I knew I was, you know, trying to get out. As soon as, as soon as possible. So moved to Sydney, I was in Sydney for seven years, you know, had experience, you know, working at the big corporations.

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[00:11:38] I was working for News Corp, the Deathstar Rupert Murdoch's, you know, company in Australia, Right when MySpace was taking off and, and they had just bought MySpace. So I was in a really, kind of cool position where I got to look after a certain amount of media agencies that looked off to big advertisers in Australia and coming up with these kind of cool campaigns that they could do on MySpace.

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[00:12:03] But basically it was, you know, a combination of a sales role slash creative producer type role. And that was really kind of where I transitioned into enjoying the creative side more. And then after seven years, I got that seven year itch in Sydney and my last position in Sydney was working with a production company.

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[00:12:26] So they were responsible for doing all the promos for TVs rebranding, TV networks, all that kind of stuff. And, and that was really kind of where I jumped into more of the producing side of things. And then I took a trip to the U S one holiday season thought, here's my next move. And it was kind of a logical step if I wanted to continue my career in entertainment.

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[00:12:51]And then within a few months, got the visa and had moved to move to the states. 

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[00:12:57] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:12:57] Wow. Oh man. That's that's amazing. So,

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[00:13:01] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:13:01] it was it was it was, it wasn't that big of a move to be honest, like there's so many Australian's here in the US so but you know, it, I'd already made the kind of move from my family being in Victoria and Melbourne to Sydney move. So I had already moved to Sydney by myself, so I wasn't a stranger to being, you know, kind of packing up my life and heading off somewhere. 

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[00:13:23]Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:13:23] Wow. Well, thanks for the, , I love the origin story. So cool to see, kinda like, you know, start to how you got here. So you make the trek and you're in LA and you're working. This is when you have your production company. Right. And tell us, I imagine, somewhere along the line, you have this idea for Goodgigs.

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[00:13:44] How do you make this transition from your production company to making a pretty bold decision to kind of venture off and start something new?

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[00:13:53]Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:13:53] I am glad you worded it like that because you got to remind yourself sometimes from, you know, where you, where you came from. And, and it was a bold decision because at the time, you know, a couple years back the production company was doing really well. You know, we had a whole bunch of cool clients that we were working with great projects that we were working on revenue was great.

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[00:14:14]And it was this decision because for, you know, multiple years, even way back Sean like when I was living in Sydney, I, I had this kind of feeling that even all the projects I was working on back there, that there was something missing. I wasn't really kind of fulfilled, wanted to do something a little better with my skills And back then, I had never heard of what a social enterprise was, what social impact was.

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[00:14:39]And that was kind of more of a gradual process. Once I got here to the US so I had this really kind of good year and with the production company, and I was like, it's really now or never that I take the opportunity to actually take some time off and ideate and give myself some space to actually come up with some ideas.

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[00:15:03] So, you know, I was in a fortunate position where I could do that and hand it off a few projects to some other producers and then just took the time to, to come up with ideas. But, you know, initially I started with, it was on a flight back from New York, actually back to Los Angeles and just doing like this list, this list of everything that I was interested in that the areas that I had expertise in and what I wanted to do moving forward, what were some non negotiables for me in terms of what I wanted to do. And right then, you know, when I was doing that list, that it was, I didn't have an idea. All I knew was that I wanted to build my own brand, because I'd been helping build all these other brands with the production company.

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[00:15:54] But I wanted to do my own thing and not be a service business because with the production company, you know, you, it's a service business and sure that can make decent revenue on that. But I think it's always going to be capped. So I wanted to create my own brand. And number two, I predominantly it had to be one that was purposeful that had some meaning that was actually doing some good, you know, cause that for me was what was missing. So with that kind of blueprint, once I kinda did that list, that really helped inform the ideation stage that I then went into, which lasted for a few months to be honest 

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[00:16:36] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:16:36] Nice. 

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[00:16:37] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:16:37] plenty of ideas, plenty of terrible ideas but eventually landed on, on, on Goodgigs based on, you know, this, my experience in freelancers working with freelancers, hiring freelancers, managing freelancers.

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[00:16:52] So it was kinda like looking at that space and and then working with clients that were actually social enterprises and doing good for the planet. So initially, you know, it started off as more of a marketplace idea, freelancer marketplace idea, more like Upwork and in a sense, kind of evolved into it more of a career platform, for mission-driven companies and for more full-time job seekers. 

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[00:17:16] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:17:16] Yeah. Awesome. I love, I love it. , one just for our listeners who just a few episodes ago, we had Mike Kim on the podcast and he ran us through this exercise of like writing down the things that we did at our old or our old job, and like crossing off the end of these things so that we know, like I didn't just plan, you know, events, you know, like you're an event planner, like you have this actual skill set of event planner and you're even just you know, speak at company events.

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[00:17:43] Like, no, you're a speaker, you have this public speaking skill. And I love that on this plane ride, you're talking not just the skills that you have, like what are like the non-negotiables. , that's something that anyone listening to, they can say, I can just jot down, like, what are the non-negotiables if I'm gonna make a transition.

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[00:17:56]What does it need to be? These are the things that are critical. So I love that there's, there's something actionable that we can do just hearing that story. And then two you really designed Goodgigs around your own expertise. You know, you were hiring freelancers, like you said, at the production agency.

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[00:18:11] And now you're like, Hey, I know the freelancer world, and you're also trying to do something with purpose. And that purpose is really baked into this thing that you're building. I love it.

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[00:18:21] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:18:21] right. Yeah. because I was talking to the potential customers as well, you know with the people that were independent contractors is a lot of the times it's just a job for them, you know, sure they could enjoy the work that they do, and they've been able to be experts in their field, but it was this common theme that there was something else missing, you know, being able to work on good projects with good clients doing good work.

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[00:18:48]And just going back to that list and the non-negotiables and just that exercise of putting everything down on paper, because a lot of the times people haven't even done that, you know, and it, and it could take half an hour an hour just to put it all down,  but just to put it on paper and just to see where there are similarities, see where there's things that you would cross off or where, like you were saying the skills that are transferable into different areas.

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[00:19:16] But I think non-negotiables is super important.

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[00:19:20] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:19:20] I imagine if you don't take the time to write that list, you're going to, you don't intentionally do those things that you don't want to do. They just creep in, right. They end up kind of walking in and if you don't identify them, then you'll find yourself there where you don't want to be. 

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[00:19:33] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:19:33] Yeah. I love that you bring that up because I think, you know, intention is such a super important word and having intention with everything that you, everything you do, you know exactly, right? Like you may not expect you to kind of land in another job that you're not completely happy with but it takes time.

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[00:19:52] It takes work to kind of build the career and the life that you want. 

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[00:19:56] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:19:56] Yeah, so this is really where you're at is helping people actually do this. And so we get the story of you ideating around this idea. You've you have this gap? I think you said like six months of time where you're really just sitting down getting these ideas out.

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[00:20:11] And it seems like you stumble really under this idea of a platform you want to build a platform, whether it's a marketplace or something that connects people with companies and for good and these things. And I imagine there was a point where I met them. There was a point where you. He had this idea, you're all ready to go.

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[00:20:29] And you're like, wait, what, how do I, I'm not a software developer. How do I build the thing? Tell us a little bit about that. Like, how did you navigate you know, setting out to build a platform where you didn't necessarily have like the direct skills to build a piece of software.

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[00:20:43]Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:20:43] Yeah. So as I mentioned earlier, like I've always enjoyed process of researching new technology or finding talent or finding experts that would be able to help what you, what you're doing. So I I've always enjoyed that process. So at that stage, I think when I realized I wanted to build my own startup and my purpose driven startup, even at that stage, I was looking for support or looking at other accelerators or any, any incubators that kind of help you with this ideation stage.

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[00:21:17] So that's kind of where I started and was fortunate to go through through a incubator, but it's called founders gym. It's basically for underrepresented founders because to help them, you know, build pitch their ideas, get investments, all that kind of stuff.

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[00:21:32] And it was a really kind of good process, but it was right at that stage. That at that point, all I had done was built a landing page just with the landing page builder. You know, there's all these different tools to just build a landing page and it's super easy and, and you're able to collect email addresses.

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[00:21:51] So just then that was kind of the only thing I had, I was can connect collecting email addresses of freelances that were interested in doing, using this skills for good. So at that point it was just an email list during this accelerator was when I was kind of developing this idea more.

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[00:22:09] And at that stage it was like this marketplace model. So I would need this web app. And as I was, Yeah. I had no technical experience at this stage, so I didn't even know the title of the type of person I would need. Right. Like the freelancer, but that didn't. 

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[00:22:29] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:22:29] do, who do I even hire?

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[00:22:31] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:22:31] Yeah, And at that stage, I think, you know, I was asking the question to the other people in the accelerators.

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[00:22:36] I was, you know, at the, I had just got on Twitter at that stage and started to connect with other founders. And I was hearing that you needed a full stack engineer, you know, a full stack developer, someone that can kind of do it all as like, oh, okay. And then from there I was like, well, how do I find one?

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[00:22:54] I just started emailing people that I knew that was in tech and was like, Hey, do you know any full stack developers that are freelances? And I was lucky to get connected with this full-stack developer at the, at the time he was the head engineer actually for a venture backed app called soothe, which was that massage app.

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[00:23:16] I'm pretty sure it's still, it's still going, but he was the head engineer for that connected with him, kind of told him, you know, the concept and. I'd worked with freelancers. So I knew, you know, you, you ask their rates, how do they work? Yada, yada, yada. But at the same time, I was also starting to do other research and it was kind of right at the time where this concept of no code was really kind of, you know gaining some steam, getting traction.

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[00:23:45]And even though it had been around for, for many years prior but there were these tools, no code tools that would allow you to build pretty comprehensive mobile and web apps without needing to understand how to code. It was a little more than drag and drop, like, you know, Wix or Squarespace or anything like that. So I think I was on Twitter. I came across one tool, specifically Bubble which what Goodgigs has been built on it's this no-code, web app builder came across this and it was at the same time that I was talking with the developer and I sent him the article, send him the website, said, Hey, what do you think of Bubble?

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[00:24:26] He'd never heard of it. And he said, I'll check it out. Jump in. And he was pretty amazed by the capability of it. And that, that was all I needed, right? Like this head engineer of this mobile app. And He was pretty impressed with what it could do. And, Alec, Alec Dibble who was an engineer should shout out his name, who he was awesome.

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[00:24:50]He was also more than just a practitioner. He like, he understood. Building a startup building a business, the whole idea of MVP, minimal viable product, and how you're trying to validate this idea how to build something really quickly, cheaply, so you can test it. So he understood that whole kind of process, and that was all new to me as well.

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[00:25:11] So at the same time, I'm learning kind of all those principles of the lean startup, how to do things really cost efficiently, especially when you don't have money to put into this. So he came back, said, Bubble is dope. Let's build it on Bubble. And that's how we, and that's how we kind of started.

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[00:25:27] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:25:27] I love it. So by the time this episode is out, our listeners have listened to a couple episodes where we mention no-code briefly. One was Fran Creswell, we had on the show who built a platform called Get Offset, which was built on Webflow and allows you to offset your carbon use on autopilot with, with Fran's platform.

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[00:25:47] And then recently had an episode where Gibson and Maitri, these two co-founders built an information directory on Notion. Two different no-code platforms where it's, we're kind of getting the sense, like, Hey, I could create a website or I can create some sort of like information-based directory with no code tools, not hiring, you know, like your full stack engineer.

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[00:26:04] Right. And what Dale is really talking about was he's using a different tool called Bubble. And if you jump on and experience, Goodgigs, you'll see this is more than a Squarespace website, right? Like this is a database. This is kind of like a complicated, not complicated, but a complex system, right.

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[00:26:21] There's users. And there is posts and community forums and all these kinds of things. Right. And when you use this and you think about how the build that you're like, that's going to take, that's going to take a little bit of work. So you were at this crossroads of do I hire the full stack engineer, which.

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[00:26:39] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:26:39] Yup, 

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[00:26:40] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:26:40] Go ahead and Google full-stack engineer salary, for example, and you're like, oh, that's an investment. And then you have this other option of kind of the DIY option using a tool called Bubble. So it sounds like you went the Bubble route. Tell us a little bit about that.

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[00:26:54] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:26:54] I actually did both. I, hired him and, and, and did the Bubble route as well. Again, you know, shout out to Alec, I understanding this, right? Like he could have easily be like, no to this no-code stuff. Like ridiculous. Let's just build it. But he was very forthcoming was like, once we started to build on a Bubble he was like, this would have taken me another month and another 10 grand to actually do what we were able to just do on Bubble. And this is something I think I would suggest to everyone as well, right? Like learn from the best in whatever you're trying to do. You know you want to start your own pub cutlet, you know, this Sean, like you want to start your own podcast, you know, go listen to all the different podcasts formats out there and, and, you know, take a podcast course and, and such.

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[00:27:46] So I've always thought of that as well, you know, get the best people in to help me and educate me. So that's kind of how it worked with Alec and Bubble is that. At this point, Bubble had some pretty good lessons online of how to teach you how everything worked. And just to kind of clarify what you were talking about there, Right. Like the difference with Bubble and what it can build. And this is what I learnt at the beginning. You know, the difference between a website and a web app is that, you know, with a website, you've got, you know, all the information that you can put on from whoever's running the website. But the difference between a web app is when the users themselves can login and create a password and create their own kind of profile and content around that.

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[00:28:35] So that's kind of an easy way of differentiating a website from a web app. So it's, it. is complicated. Like I had no experience in that. I, I like to think that I had a pretty decent design aesthetic and understanding, you know, Design principles do a landing page and all that kind of stuff. So with, with Bubble, there's kind of three main components, there's the design element.

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[00:29:02] So it's what you see on the website. That is the data component, which is where all the data for the web app where you storing old uses profiles, passwords, all the content that they create, everything that you can create on the site, that's where everything is stored in the data. And then you've got the workflow, which is how to all the components work together.

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[00:29:24] So with Bubble out of old, the no-code tools and, and, and I know there's some competitors in the space coming up in this space, isn't it. Now that can do what Bubble can do, but Bubble is extremely comprehensive in terms of, you know, what you can, what you can build. So where I was getting stuck, though, Sean was like understanding how to set up the database and all that methodology.

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[00:29:47] And that's where I really needed help. You know, the lessons were pretty good on Bubble and this was, you know, over two years ago now and the lessons and the courses that Bubble have created on this site is so much better now. Like they've literally got here's how to build an Airbnb clone and it literally takes you through how to do it back then.

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[00:30:07] It wasn't really the case. So it was a steep learning curve for me, but what had happened. So I was, you know, paying Alec to help kind of build the backend as I was designing the front end and really kind of getting the UX element of, of Goodgigs together. And then the more I understood it and, and taught myself on Bubble the less I needed of Alec, I'd only pay him.

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[00:30:35] Like, man, I've been struggling on, on this for like half a day. Can you just fix it? And he fixes it in like five minutes. So it got to that. So I got to a point where it's 

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[00:30:45] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:30:45] Ask for help when you need help.

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[00:30:46] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:30:46] Yeah. and I could, and I could, you know if I just got him to do the whole thing, A I probably couldn't afford to do that. And B I wouldn't be in a position now where I understand Bubble really well.

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[00:30:59] If I need to make a change, I don't need anyone else to help me. I don't need to wait for a developer that will be a free in two weeks. And I'm paying him hundreds of dollars just to make a, you know, a quick, a quick change. I'm able to jump in and do it myself. 

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[00:31:13] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:31:13] Yeah. Cool. So this is so interesting. , you're, you're a solo founder and you're, you're inside the platform. Right. And you're, I imagine you're beginning to make decisions about the app kind of as you're building and you, you kinda have an idea what it's going to do, but you're, you're in it. And I think there's a unique advantage right there to be so close to the product that you're designing exactly what you want to see and, and feel. 

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[00:31:36] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:31:36] it is, 

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[00:31:37] not without it's challenges the right. like, because I wasn't a product developer so I didn't necessarily know, I've not a UX designer but from everything I've done previously with video work or you know, learning how to produce.

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[00:31:52] And I taught myself how to edit videos, all that kind of stuff. I'd always just look for awesome examples and just really kind of understand the medium that I was working in. So once I started understanding what I was trying to build, what I thought would be kind of the, the MVP, what we could quickly build to test the idea.

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[00:32:16] I would then go searching all different other web apps and websites and just made a list of things that I really liked about it. And I would put the link in a form and then next to it, say what I liked about it, you know? And then, so it ended up being this kind of Einstein kind of not an Einstein, sorry, a Frankenstein. You could go either way, right? 

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[00:32:41]Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:32:41] Yeah, you do feel a little bit like a scientist. 

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[00:32:43]Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:32:43] But that's really how I taught myself and understand, you know, What looks good, understand kind of UX principles, like how to make it just a simple flow of the people coming on there.

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[00:32:56] And then as I was doing that, Alec was able to then, you know, make it all work together and, and, and looking back at it, I spent so many days, weeks on building things that were just unnecessary, that didn't work, but I just got caught up in, in, in building on Bubble. But so that would be, you know, an also a note for anyone listening, if you kind of get stuck into this, make sure that you spend, you know, 50% of the time building the product, other 50% showing it to customers, even if it's not ready, seeing if it works, seeing if they like it, because I wasted so much time on that. 

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[00:33:38] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:33:38] That's a good, a really good note. But I love, I love it because I imagine the alternative is like not building it. Right. So you're like have this idea. That's not quite even making progress. Right. And it's interesting hearing about your developer friend saying that would have took me another month.

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[00:33:53] So there is a real opportunity there for people that might not have the funding or access to developers or something, and they can get something going faster in some ways, maybe not every way, but faster than maybe a developer, if they had one.

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[00:34:07]Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:34:07] Definitely. And Bubble is just one tool, you know, you know, like since right now there are so many no-code tools out there that you don't. Depends. What your, what your idea is of what you're trying to build. You don't need to build this fully comprehensive web or mobile app right now. All you're trying to do is test the idea that you have that could just be a landing page or, you know, an email list.

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[00:34:37] And you're just emailing people once a week and see if it gets traction and something like that. There's so many easier ways of, of testing it before you then, you know, jump into building something more comprehensive. 

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[00:34:47] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:34:47] Yeah absolutely. Well, cool. So now you have at this point it sounds like you have a minimum viable product and something that you can get users in and, and things like that. Share with us about the impact that you've been making through Goodgigs.

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[00:35:00]What are some of those stories or how are people using the platform? Connecting with one another, connecting with companies what have you seen?

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[00:35:08]Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:35:08] Well, it's been interesting. So since, you know, jumping to where we're at now, there's been so many different iterations. Things didn't work like with that MVP realizing initially I was testing this donation model on top of like an invoice builder that quickly didn't work something I spent way too much time on.

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[00:35:27]But since then now, you know, where we're at is Goodgigs is a career platform for mission-driven companies, social enterprises, B Corp's nonprofits to then post or their opportunities, their full-time opportunities on Goodgigs to a community of purpose-driven professionals who want to use their skills for good.

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[00:35:46] Just in the last couple months we launched a community platform for job seekers, and people that are interested in looking for full-time work, looking for freelance work with good companies or starting their own social enterprise themselves. It's kind of this combination of all three.

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[00:36:06] And it's been awesome, just that community platform be able to speak with the community on a, on a regular basis. Because prior to that, people were signing up, we doing a weekly newsletter. People were applying for the jobs that were, that were on the platform, but I, I didn't have a place for the community to interact with each other to network with each other.

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[00:36:29] So just having this platform, it's, it's, it's been pretty great that where I get to communicate and network and see other people that From the community that working together, collaborating on things, getting jobs with each other. So, so that's pretty cool. And just in the last month I started doing office hours and it's just, you know, 30 minutes one-on-one time where I get to chat with, with the job seekers in the community.

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[00:36:56] And just to understand where they at, where they could be having a challenge, you know, where do they need support or help, maybe it's just a Pepto and showing like as a solo founder, it is so lonely. And some days you just don't know if you 're doing the right thing. If you're supposed to be on this trajectory, you know, there's so many different ideas that you can kind of lose focus.

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[00:37:23] But once I started doing the office hours and getting to talk one-on-one with people as well, just to help them wherever I can, that really just solidified for me that I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing, you know? So that's been super rewarding for me as well. And also just helps me work out what's next for Goodgigs. You know, what else are we, what else are we building on there? But it's, it's been rewarding. It's a challenge. Each day is a challenge. Like how do you continue to grow Goodgigs How do you differentiate it from the biggest career platforms? You know, how do you, do you know, how do you do something cool that can get that growth traction? I love that process of like coming up with it ideas, but again, it's like resources. You just have to kind of strip it all down to the kind of the most minimum thing that you can do and just, you know, focus on that. 

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[00:38:21]Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:38:21] Nice. I love, I love that you're sharing kind of both sides of this. Cause I think there's a glamour side of it where you people look at the founders, they're looking at the companies that are kind of getting started and they, they want, they, they love it, right. They're like, I want to jump in. But you're also signing up for like the lonely part of it.

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[00:38:40] You're signing up for the times when things break or, you know, you you're pivoting going in a different direction and there's there's work where you're like, I had spent a lot of time on that. Now we're shifting gears, signing up for all aspects of it. And I think it's important for, for people maybe even listening today that have ideas or they're looking at founding a company or looking to make a transition not every day is like the glamorous side of it.

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[00:39:03]But if you hear these other sides of it and you're saying, Hey, I think the rewarding part of it is going to outweigh some of those difficult challenges then it just might, it might be there. It's a special person to be an entrepreneur, a founder, and it takes certain skills and some of that endurance.

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[00:39:21]Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:39:21] Definitely just being able to kind of have that curiosity as well, because each day is a challenge. You know, you are going to have good days in the morning, it could be terrible in the afternoon. Like things have turned around. You are setting yourself up for, you know, a big challenge, but hopefully the pros outweigh the cons, but also going into that and understanding that having the curiosity that your ideas are going to change. Ideas are not going to work. You're going to get rejected. You're not going to, you know, all that kind of stuff. If you have a good awareness that all that is going to happen and it will happen, you will pivot the idea multiple times.

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[00:40:03] And you're just more excited about the process. I think that's going to help you. 

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[00:40:09]Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:40:09] love it. And then just knowing that Goodgigs has this community aspect, where there are people who understand that, and now they can connect with one another and some of that with one another and learn from one another.

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[00:40:21]So  kind of jumping off of that if someone's listening and they're like, I have an idea, I want to get something started and I see what I'm walking into. I see the, the potential for, for the good days and the bad days, but they're, they kind of want to jump in. What would you say to people who are in the spot where they're they're like you on a plane jotting down this list of non-negotiables and they're looking to jump out and start something and they're in that spot. What would you say?

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[00:40:46]Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:40:46] I would say if you're listening to this podcast and at the moment, the idea is just in your head and you haven't started yet, like after this podcast, just do one thing, do something to start today, just to kind of get the wheels in motion and get that momentum, you know, a lot of people. And just to do that, if you just did that exercise and whether that is just getting that idea, that business idea that you have.

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[00:41:15]Down on paper, which, you know, a lot of people haven't even done that you're still miles ahead of all the other people that have business ideas but have not done anything with it. And that's, that's the biggest shame, right? Like, Yeah, just start, just do something. It could be putting the idea on paper.

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[00:41:33] You could be a little further than that. You've already put it on paper. You could be getting the domain. It could be spend 30 minutes on Google researching to make sure that there's no other business idea out there. You know, you'll be surprised at how many people do, you know, don't take the time to research and do thorough research and understand if you understand that the potential customer find where are they hanging out?

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[00:41:59] You know, where are their communities? There's so many things that you could do to just start, but just 

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[00:42:04] start. 

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[00:42:05] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:42:05] Yeah that's such a good message to even to add to the list, if it's okay. I, I talk about how this, this very podcast I had the idea for, for like four years ago. I was kind of starting my business and I'm like, I think this needs to exist. And I texted a friend, this same person I mentioned in the beginning of the show.

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[00:42:21] And I looked back the other day just to find the text message, right. I looked on my computer like scrolled way, way, way, way back. And I found like the text message conversation of the idea for the, of We Can Do This or the podcast. And so even if the action step is just like telling someone, talk to a friend, say I have this idea, what do you think? And they'll often give you honest feedback. Just telling someone gives a little bit of accountability and it's an action step to just sharing it with someone.

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[00:42:48] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:42:48] I love that, that you mentioned that it's like it's giving yourself a full forcing function to, to start. And I did the same thing actually, and it was more with my podcast. And I was launching the podcast with, along with Goodgigs, kind of using it as a promotional tool for, for Goodgigs.

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[00:43:04] But I went even a little more extreme showing like 20 going into 2020 new year's resolution. I put it on my Instagram, just putting it out here. I'm starting a podcast and it's still, it's a post on my on my Instagram, starting a podcast this year, I'm going to do it, putting it out here so that everyone sees it.

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[00:43:25] And it took a few months to begin because then hit 

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[00:43:31] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:43:31] It's a lot of work.

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[00:43:32] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:43:32] right. Oh my God. And I did it. And I set that goal that I wanted to get, I think 25 episodes done by the end of 2020. And I think I was two months ahead of that, you know, and now I'm at coming up to 50 episodes of it. So Yeah, I love that idea.

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[00:43:52] Put it out into the universe. Right? Let people see it. Keep you accountable. But also, you know, you're telling the universe what you're going to do. You know, you're putting that energy out as well.

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[00:44:05] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:44:05] I love it. Well, thanks so much for sharing those things. I truly believe that people are listening to this podcast and the ideas that you have, we need your ideas. The things that you actually care about are keeping you up at night. Like we need those things in the world. So we really hope some people sit down and write that list of non-negotiables or like you said, they buy the domain, create the landing page.

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[00:44:27] They just do something. I think that's a really, really good takeaway from this episode, but thanks so much. It was really, really great talking with you. And I love hearing about the story of Goodgigs, what you're up to and how you built it. And this has been really encouraging. Is there anything before we wrap things up, is there anything else that you want to share with us?

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[00:44:43]Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:44:43] Yeah I've, I've loved chatting with you, Sean. Hopefully we can do this more often and I love that, you know, just telling people we need your ideas. Right. I think the last thing I would just leave. With people is don't reject yourself before others have been able to reject you. And, and that is you let your head talk you out of doing things because you think you could get rejected,

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[00:45:14] they not going to like it. That's a stupid idea without you even doing anything or even, you know, exploring that idea. Get used of the perception that, that, of creating and not necessarily, you know, what the response is, you know, because that's part of building an idea, you're going to try so many different things.

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[00:45:35] It's going to succeed, fail, whatever, but you're going to keep on pushing and moving forward. So even if you do just put that idea out there and you don't get the response that you were hoping lean into that, like do more research. Why. Do people think that's not a good idea why, you know, and what's next, then how do you change?

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[00:45:59] How do you, you know, don't let that first rejection turn you off and especially don't let that rejection be your own rejection, right. Actually, actually do it and get out there. 

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[00:46:10]Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:46:10] Don't don't disqualify yourself. And if people disqualify you in the beginning, figure out why and lean into it a little bit. That's that's so good. So Dale, Goodgigs. Tell us, where do we find Goodgigs? Where do we find you? Where do we find your podcast? If we want to check you out and listen in where do we go?

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[00:46:25] Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:46:25] Yeah Love it. Goodgigs is Goodgigs.app. So come to Goodgigs.app there is full-time freelance, remote positions with all these awesome companies working on so many different social issues. So there's going to be something a company working on something that you really care about. Come check out all the open positions.

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[00:46:45]We also have a community there'll be a community link up in the top nav where you can come and network with folks like Sean you're in the you're in the community. And, you know, tell folks what you're, what you're working on, where you need help, how you can help others. We'd love to have you there.

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[00:46:59] And if you want to hit me up, the best place to find me, A other than the Goodgigs community is on Twitter. And that is @DaleWWilkinson. And you know, if you want some accountability, if you're listening to this podcast and you're going to do something today, starting that idea hit me up, hit showing up, tell us what you did.

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[00:47:19] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:47:19] yeah. Oh, perfect. Cool. So I'll include all those links in the show notes. We'll also include the podcast links in there and definitely jump in to Goodgigs and like Dale said I'm in the community. So excited to see you in there, but again, Dale, thanks so much.

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[00:47:35] It's been so fun to talk with you. Thanks again for being on the show.

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[00:47:39]Dale Wilkinson: 

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[00:47:39] Likewise. Sean has been a, it's been so much fun. And, I'm excited for you buddy, excited for you this podcast. And thank you so much for having me on, 

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[00:47:47] Sean Pritzkau: 

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[00:47:47] Awesome. Appreciate it. 

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[00:47:48] 

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[00:48:02]What an awesome conversation with D ale I think it was just really one of those episodes where we dig into what it's like to start something and what it's like to take an idea and really build it out in every aspect. So I hope that you found this episode helpful.

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[00:48:21]We'll definitely include all the links to some of the tools that we mentioned, like Bubble cause that could be an opportunity for you. If you have an idea and you're ready to take some sort of step. Some sort of action in to building the idea or getting it started Bubble might be the tool for you. It also might not. So definitely do your research. And like Dale said, walk through it with intention.

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[00:48:46]Like we mentioned at the end of the episode, if you have an idea right now and maybe even beating yourself up about how you haven't taken any action steps to do so. I really would encourage you to pause the episode, jump in and either create that list that we talked about of the non negotiables, or just write down your thoughts and get it on paper or better yet reach out to someone, you know, that will hold you accountable to that idea. Or even jump on Twitter and mention Dale or mention myself and let us know that you took that action step. And that gives you a little bit of accountability from us. So, thanks so much for listening to this episode.

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[00:49:21] If you enjoyed what you heard, it would mean the world. If you would jump on iTunes, Apple Podcasts and leave a review, let us know what you thought of the episode, let us know what you think of the podcast. It'd be really great to hear from you, love reading those reviews, but again, thanks for listening and I'll see you next week.

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