The Influence and Impact of Becoming the Brand with Mike Kim

Sean: [00:00:00]  Welcome to episode four of We Can Do This. I am really excited for today's conversation with Mike Kim. Mike is a brand strategist and copywriter. He's worked with people like John Maxwell and Donald Miller of StoryBrand and some other really influential thought leaders and brands. He's also the author of "You Are The Brand", his new book that is slated to release this year. And Mike and I have actually known each other for quite a while from our previous career paths. Mike has actually been someone that I've really looked to for guidance and mentorship, and I've hired him for coaching and he's helped me a whole lot in my own career as I've built up my business.

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[00:00:41]And this episode is really great if you're someone who is feeling stuck and knows that you need to make a transition and you may have ideas of starting your own business or partnering with someone to start a business, and you just don't know what to do next. This is going to be a really great episode for you.

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[00:00:59] So with no further ado, let's jump into the episode with Mike Kim.

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[00:01:02] 

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[00:01:16]Hey welcome to the podcast. Today we are here with Mike Kim. Mike is a speaker and marketing strategist who specializes in brand strategy and copywriting. He has been hired by some of today's most influential thought leaders and brands including John Maxwell, Donald Miller, Suzanne Evans, and Catalyst and for years he was the Chief Marketing Officer of a successful multimillion dollar company near New York City. Nowadays you'll find him speaking at conferences, looking for the next great place to scuba dive, and sipping a glass of Macklin 15 all while teaching everything he knows about branding, entrepreneurship, and life through his podcast Brand You. Mike welcome to the show.

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[00:01:53] Mike: 

[00:01:53] Sean is awesome to be here And thanks for everyone tuning in today Hope to add some value to you

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[00:01:57] Sean: 

[00:01:57] Yeah absolutely so Mike and I have known each other for quite a while now. I've really resonated with his work because we have kind of very similar stories and backgrounds And we actually knew each other through those backgrounds through our days in music and ministry and some other work we did before we started our own businesses. So Mike I'm really excited to have you on the show I think it's it's kind of full circle for me I listened to your podcast while I was kind of making my own transition into starting my own business and I think it was a couple of years ago I was on your show and now it feels like full circle. Having you jump on an episode with me.

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[00:02:30] Mike: 

[00:02:30] Yeah it's super exciting that you started the podcast and all of this is a journey, isn't it? It's funny because I've used to hear a lot we were growing up you never know what life's gonna throw at you You never know how life is going to turn out No one can predict the future all these kinds of things right And I'm like yeah sure That's nice whatever Right I'm sure that means something like I never thought I'd live in California or I never thought I'd live in this country but For you And I just so it was like complete transformation trajectories of our careers and our vocations and all of these things. And now we're podcasting and we're sharing our ideas in this medium where as you know in a different life we were very much Sharing our thoughts and ideas from a different venue in a different vantage point. So it is full circle and it is really cool to see this happen for you. 

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[00:03:19] Sean: 

[00:03:19] Yeah I'm super excited and it's all pretty wild. And when I think of you I think you're like the person I know who is always like on the go the most, like traveling, speaking at conferences. I looked on your Instagram and I thought you were in one place but you're in another place. So I know you're in LA now and so I'm curious like over this past year how was that transitioning from always being on the go that kind of slowed down a bit.

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[00:03:41]Mike: 

[00:03:41] It's funny because I still think I traveled a lot In the last year once you know the United States locked down everywhere I still think I travel more than the average person does in a year. Well  that's absolutely true. And I was kind of grounded for a little while obviously when things locked down initially last March and April and I didn't go anywhere for like six weeks and it was actually really good for me. It was good for me to be home, I kind of reinvented a lot of things in my business in the way that I was you know interacting with people and the things that I was doing. And I really took to heart the words of friend of mine said because he did say something like that along with lines of what you said. "Hey you're always on the go" And I thought to myself like I was sharing with him his friend his name is Jeff and I was like I just don't feel super happy like doing what I'm doing. And he's like well you're always on the go and you're doing a lot of short term things but you need to build something that's longterm. And he said this he said "building things is fun" And I was like huh Okay And thought about How one of the big things I've always wanted to do is write a book. And I had actually signed a book deal about five years ago but because of my personal life kind of going sideways and went through a divorce and stuff like that I didn't have the bandwidth to do it. So dude I just locked down. Like literally during lockdown And I just wrote this book and it'll be out later this year in July. And it's really the culmination of the last seven eight years of stuff that I've learned, the stuff that I've taught, the stuff that I've learned through teaching what I knew, right? And seeing transformation happen So that was really good sort of surreal that I did that, And I think that looking back that slowing down was really actually very very good for me.

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[00:05:28]Sean: 

[00:05:28] Yeah I remember when you shared that originally the idea of like what are you building and is this something that you want once it's built like actually run and do And those are important questions to ask I think a lot of people that listen to this show or in the process of wanting to build either a brand or a business or a career that they actually want to be involved with for the long haul. So I'm like that's actually one of the reasons I really wanted to invite you on the show is one of our first interviews is I think a lot of your story really resonates with people who listen to this show . And so because I know you personally right and we've worked together and  I'm in your mastermind group and you know you've been able to coach me through my own business, I know a whole lot about your story but  I really want to share some of that with listeners of the show today because you really went from having a career that you had planned, To kind of pivoting to another industry  that you didn't necessarily plan and then eventually started your own business and her where you're at now. So do you mind sharing with our listeners today how did you get from you know really sitting at a desk job to now you're traveling around the world and sharing about marketing and branding and now you're releasing a book.

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[00:06:38] Mike: 

[00:06:38] Yeah Well it it actually predates like what I did even in business or in marketing. So for many years and this is how you and I met Sean just but just for those of your listening since I graduated college I thought the rest of my life I will be involved in vocational ministry. I was very involved in a Christian Church that I grew up in since junior high I was very active there. What I  mean by active like it was I went to a lot of the events, the services, I signed up for a lot of volunteer positions, I was given a lot of volunteer positions. I showed a lot of capability and promise I think in that arena. And eventually I took a job as the music director for a church in Connecticut. And that was a full-time gig And I did that for four years And I thought that this is this is what I've always wanted to do. And so I went to town and it was I was like I don't think life could get that much better This is amazing. You know I'm I'm being paid to do something that I love,  to raising up teams. It didn't mean that it was perfect or anything like that. But I really thought that this was what I was going to do for the rest of my life, at least in that sphere maybe I wouldn't be doing music forever but I've just felt like I would be involved in some way or another with church ministry. And everything changed on Father's Day 2009 And when I mean that it really did I flew out to Colorado Springs, Colorado. Met with a guy named Ross at the time Sean I think I was like 31 years old. I was a year and a half into this position I'm in Connecticut. And things were going really really well at at my job, and I reached out to this guy Ross because I was hungry to be mentored by leaders in the same position that I was. And he was working at this huge very influential church and he invited me out to come to one of their conferences and he said he would meet with me in between some meetings. So we sit down on Father's Day between services in his office Yeah but the father said it was a Sunday so I don't feel like I like take away time from his kids or anything. And I walked into his office and I was stunned. Like he was at the top of the mountain both like figuratively and literally like the back windows of his office look I could see the Rockies. Right And I was like oh my gosh this guy has had it made He's he's He's made it And we had a great conversation but when I went back to my hotel room to process everything that happened I asked myself this like super innocent question and it would end up changing the course of my career and my life. And I asked myself do I want this guy's life in  15 years? Cause I was 31 He was in his mid forties Right And I was like do I want this guy's life in 15 years? And I was shocked when the answer was no.  So that really started me down a path where I started asking more and more questions. What do I want to do What what do I want my life to look like. Where do I want to be and if I could be totally honest I I couldn't look at myself  in the mirror and say yeah your life's call is to Sing same songs for 30 minutes every Sunday for the same you know 700 people for the rest of your life.

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[00:09:53] Sean: 

[00:09:53] Yeah no

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[00:09:54]Mike: 

[00:09:54] Yeah I just couldn't do it right. So it was really like an earthquake moment and I just didn't really know what to do and that led me down a completely different path in terms of where I was going to go. So a couple of years later I resigned from that church music position I had no idea what I wanted to do. But I moved back to New Jersey where I grew up most of my life and I landed a job just it's just kind of came out of nowhere and they made me the marketing director for this company. But that was really phase one And I think if I could tie a bow on that phase of my life I would say take a look at yourself a closer look at yourself By looking above you like pick someone at the top of your company or your industry your market Deeply consider his or her lifestyle their income their day-to-day schedule And ask yourself like do I want a life that looks like that And that's what happened when I met Ross. I found someone who was at of the mountain that I was climbing and I realized I was climbing the wrong mountain. And it was just like surreal feeling to go through that.

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[00:11:07] Sean: 

[00:11:07] Yeah I'm so glad that you're saying this Cause I remember hearing you were countless for the first time and it made me like rethink a bit about what I was doing I was looking at Like you said people above me are kind of where I imagined myself. And it didn't line up at all and and it's it can be really strange for the public or people, family, friends, people that know you, colleagues to see you  make a transition because in some ways it looks like you already are doing what you want to do. It seems like a mountain top type experience especially in the worlds that we originally working in I mean music on a stage getting paid to be a musician and be in front of people is like. There's a lot of glamour in that in that role but you made that a significant transition. Can you tell us about howHow that happened and how you ended up starting your own business?

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[00:11:51] Mike: 

[00:11:51] Yeah So I resigned from this job I have no idea what I'm going to do with my life. So I literally I mean I've read some of my journal entries from that point in my life, I still have them, and I'm just like whoa I can't believe I did this. You know what I mean I'm like oh my gosh this is almost grossly irresponsible but it wasn't you know as a younger, I didn't have kids, you know anything like that. So I land this job at a company I used to work for it was an educational company where I used to teach high school and junior high students prepare for their SATs their college entrance exams.  I had always maintained a really good relationship with the owners of the company and they found out that I moved back from  to New Jersey from Connecticut. And so they reached out "Hey do you want to get dinner some time, we heard you're back in town" I was like sure sure sure That'd be great And they asked me point blank Hey do you want to come and teach a few classes We just opened a new location and you actually live nearby. And I was like no I'm sorry I'm not interested I you know I'm too old to this kind of stuff I don't want to teach you know stuff You know sat stuff to kids you know I just finished this great Dream job And then I left it and I'm not going to go back to something that I did in college. Right but I was getting a little restless I just didn't know what I was going to do, And that gap year if you will I spent a lot of weekends traveling and doing itinerant music and speaking in the church scene because I had so many friends in that world. But found I was traveling too much So in an effort to kind of stay home and stay active like I agreed to teach a few classes and stuff like that at the academy. And one day walking out of work you know working there just a few hours a week maybe You know six hours a week or something like that. And the owner of the company says Hey do you have a second Can you look at this And I'm like yeah what's up And she shows me an ad that the company is running in their local newspaper. And I look at the ad and I'm like no this is wrong. You need to change this change the wording here try and change the font there, What you're selling Isn't really clear. There's no call to action she just looked at me like I had three heads like how do you know how to do this And I was like I don't know Right I don't I don't know Why don't you just make sense to me And in retrospect I now realize that my real marketing education happened when I worked at the church because I'd done so many events I'd created so many promotional materials For events during that time we held conferences We released music albums that we recorded in studios in live settings I mean outside of being a wedding planner, I was the most Busy live event coordinator you'll find we have a live event every Sunday So I cumulated all these skills that I didn't realize I had. And she asked me point blank Would you consider running marketing for the entire company? Name your price. And I was just like wait what was like I don't I am not formally trained in marketing I don't know exactly what to say or do here but I do know the company and I do know the owners and I know that they could change a lot of things and benefit a lot. So I gave her a number and to my complete and total surprise it was a lot of money, She said yes. And I was like right cool and  I started that  job but as soon as I started that job I knew I had to keep one foot out the door or at least keep one eye looking out the window, Because I didn't want to be in that job forever either. So I loved it in the sense that it challenged me and then opened up a new world to me. But there was no way I could say that this was also what I was going to do for the rest of  my life. So I really just started taking what I was doing at work, the things that I was learning in marketing I started devouring a ton of marketing books. And at the same time I was looking for books about how to start your own career or how to step out and be your own boss what the solopreneur life looked like. And After probably about a year and a half of working at that job full-time I was able to build a big enough audience to get out of my job. And creating a new career. So basically within about three and a half years I completely shifted careers landed a new job and then quit that job and started my own business And it was a crazy.

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[00:16:23] Sean: 

[00:16:23] Yeah Yeah that's so wild I mean there's so many things that we could unpack there and I don't know if we'll give a chance today but I mean a lot of people listening right They have soft skills that they think they have from a previous position or job and they think they could maybe make that transition but they don't the story that they don't have the actual skills required. They're not really a teacher, they're not really a speaker, Right but they don't realize that a lot of those things that were honed in from previous settings are completely able to be translated into other settings.

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[00:16:52]Mike: 

[00:16:52] Yeah And to jump on that the most clarifying exercise that I did, One day I was just like so frustrated with like what am I going to do with my life literally I could read my journal I'm like what am I doing with my life Like who 

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[00:17:03] Sean: 

[00:17:03] Hmm 

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[00:17:03] Mike: 

[00:17:03] am I Who am I trying to help? Right And I jotted down a short list of things that I did in all these various jobs that I just mentioned. Right So number one I might write down like I taught high school students and then number two I spoke at church and number three I wrote songs and number four I led meetings for you know music team volunteers and recruited volunteers five like I'm marketing the albums who have recorded Number six I hosted conferences something along those lines And then it hit me All I had to do was cross out the end of each of those sentences I saw this list and said I taught I spoke I wrote I led meetings I marketed I hosted conferences. And when I saw those words like staring back at me it was like I saw myself in a different light or really you could say like I saw myself for the first time. Because for so much of our lives we see ourselves through the lens of a company, an organization, or a role, rather than what you just said Sean you know who we really are the skills that we inherently possess or that we've honed over time We fail to see our own unique expertise So I just started to say these to myself all the time. I'm a teacher, I'm a speaker, I'm a writer, I'm a facilitator, And those weren't even all things that were in my job description. 

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[00:18:18] But there are a lot of things baked into that and you know that's just a very you know general list but that exercise really really helped me reinvent myself, And it helped me change the story I was telling myself not just what I was telling the public but really what I was telling myself.

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[00:18:35]Sean: 

[00:18:35] That's so good. When you work through these mental exercises and you begin to dream and see where you imagine yourself, and then you look at your current setting and the desk that you have to drive to every single day and sit and you know kind of give 50% to it because you aren't fully in it I know that can be a really frustrating experience.  Because you see where you want to be but you're living in this current reality and I know you've talked about this famous selfie you T you took while you were in that spot right. You saw where you wanted to be but you were living that current reality, Can you tell us about that?

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[00:19:07] Mike: 

[00:19:07] Yeah So I don't know how I came with this one either It's just I feel like it could only emanate from my strange mind You know. So I cooked this up when I was working that marketing job. You know at the company and it was a great job. They really loved me and the results that I helped the company get. I was also totally miserable. So I started taking selfies on my phone privately of course during those moments when I was really really miserable. And it's funny because every time I felt like giving up on launching my own business I would open this folder because I realized that  it was very easy for me to get lulled Back into the grind Like we'd have these really fun company holiday parties Right And everyone would have a great time And then that party would end and it would sort of lull you into this sense that no we did really good things Now grinded out for three more months That is a very subtle way of luring me back into the grind And I'd find myself thinking after those days like you know those parties well you know this isn't all that bad I should be grateful I have this job And then I'd be like dude wake up man Like you just quit one job where you were way more successful You have a lot more connections for this job And now you're going to fall into the same thing 

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[00:20:28] so then I whip out these sadistic selfies where I look absolutely miserable. And remind myself to be grateful but not low that low myself to sleep and even now like now that I've been in my own business for a number of years six seven years now. Anytime I'm doing some sort of life sucking task  I just remember that I have these selfies where I'm just like why am I doing this. You know hire this out Right so I know that that sounds a little strange but a wise man once said like there are two things in life that motivate you the fear of pain and the desire for pleasure. The pain is a very powerful motivator So I intentionally tapped into that To motivate myself to get out.

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[00:21:09]Sean: 

[00:21:09] It's so good I mean when I when I heard you talk about that like I did that myself I have a photo my sadistic selfie and I'll share that somewhere cause I look miserable right And that spoke so much to me because in my job and in my previous role a lot of people saw like Sean is generally happy and fun to be around and that kind of thing. But when I would go home to my wife or I would go around friends and family they would see me kind of just like burnt out. They would see this version of myself that wasn't the true self. And that picture just like emulates like oh I'd never want to be that because it's it's not who I am. It doesn't represent who I am the life I want to live And I love that you continue taking that photo to this day because life is too short to Really be in a state of You know not doing what we know we're supposed to be doing.

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[00:21:57]That's so good so like I mean you're you're you're a marketing and branding consultant You work these days as a speaker you know you run various mastermind groups. You have other things that you work on that you don't talk about all the time that are mission-driven, so for people listening to the podcast today I mean they are likely starting a business There may be one of these like accidental entrepreneurs like you and I or they might be in an existing role at a mission-driven company or a nonprofit or a business that they're looking to to grow and scale. And marketing and branding can feels so daunting. So would you mind tell us a little bit about how if you're just starting out right now or you're looking to really like grow and scale what you're doing, can you help us frame how we should approach marketing and how we should begin to look at it?

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[00:22:45]Mike: 

[00:22:45] Yeah you've mentioned a few times us doing work that we really believe in. And that can happen through a nonprofit, it can happen through business, it can happen through charities and in any number of ways. But I think what is easy to lose sight of is that this has to come from our core.

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[00:23:06]A lot of times people will contact me or reach out to me and say Hey can you help us with our marketing Because more better marketing will lead to more money Right Whether they make more money they raise more money whatever it is but there is a step that precedes marketing and this word also starts with an M and that word is movement. What movement do you want to launch? If you look at some of these organizations some of these companies right Tom's shoes  they're doing more than just selling shoes. Any political civil rights leader there's a deeper sense of calling. They're looking to launch a movement My early years I didn't really think like that I was just like I just want to get out of my day job I'm just taking these statistics selfie so I can get out of my day job But once I started getting really close to leaving that day job And once I left I had to ask myself like what do I really care about? Do I just want to make money live on the beach somewhere like What do I really want to do? And so I realized the first step to everything is really formulating your point of view. And this is so important because voicing or even having your own opinion can seem very unsettling because if you've spent your life in an organization or in a company or like I did you  in a religious organization Having your own opinion isn't always really a good thing I work with a lot of folks who come out of government work or military or education or health Or law and in those industries very highly specialized industries highly regulated industries If you have an opinion you get your wrist slapped. So you can see how this may not serve you even though you're very intelligent very smart very diligent It may not serve you in entrepreneurship because in entrepreneurship You know when you ever you start an organization a company you have to have a point of view. a different line of work right So to help draw what's inside I use three simple questions this the personal brand three or the PB three for short and you know again I'm from Jersey. So I sometimes use a little bit of salty language but the first question is what pisses you off And the second question is what breaks your heart And the third question is what's the big problem you're trying to solve 

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[00:25:18]

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[00:25:18] at the intersection of those three questions is really your point of view It's how you see the world. It's how you see things in that particular market or industry. If I could rephrase it another way question one what pisses you off is really about the injustice you see in the world. So a lot of us tuning into this podcast we see injustice in the world. And number two you know what breaks your heart We see or we carry compassion. 

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[00:25:48] And those are very mission-driven words: injustice and compassion. And three what's the big problem you're trying to solve. That is the purpose of your business, your nonprofit, your organization, whatever you do and it is again at the intersection of those three things that we find our point of view. And that's what makes marketing easy. When I go to a client or a company and they say we want you to help us market this product or this program. I'm like, well what's the driver behind this? Is there one? Because if we can contextualize it with a story that provides context for the content that you're trying to sell or for the program you're trying to sell. And I know that some people might feel like this is way overblown right Like nah you know This can't be that big of a deal But imagine you And I like we we walk up to some speaker after we hear like this riveting life-changing speech You know and we ask her like Hey So why did you get into speaking And she responds well I'm really just doing this make money. we'd be so disappointed right I mean there's clients I work with they do not need more money. They're doing 

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[00:26:55] Sean: 

[00:26:55] Hmm

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[00:26:56] Mike: 

[00:26:56] impact And those are the kinds of people that I like to work with. 

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[00:26:59] Sean: 

[00:26:59] Yeah that's so good And I know a lot of people maybe listening even the word like personal branding. It's a loaded word, right. People think one thing about personal branding some people think another thing about personal branding. And I think at the end of the day like people these days want to  buy from businesses or donate to organizations that they care about and to do that they need to stand for something. And if you're listening to the podcast today in personal branding even seems like something that I don't know if I want to start a personal brand they might want to start Company. Even these days like we know the people behind these brands right like Tesla like we know Elon Musk is behind Tesla. And we know Jack is behind Square and these other companies like in 2021   there isn't faceless companies. And so I think it's so important to one as a company and as a brand as an organization to know what you stand for but also personally know that you bring so much more to the company than just like the strategy and the business plan but you bring your whole self to it.

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[00:28:00]Mike: 

[00:28:00] Yeah it is so true and you gave two great examples there Sarah Blakely with Spanx is another great example. And when we talk about branding there are a lot of different definitions about branding but branding is just all about identity. You know it's just all about how people perceive us and then building a personal brand business is crafting an identity that is comprised of your expertise, your reputation, your ideas, and your personality. All that's mixed in to create an intentional brand I don't know if you've ever thought about this or knew this but Like hundreds of years ago back in the 17 hundreds there's this English Potter named Josiah Wedgwood. He's often called the father of modern marketing and he was the first guy that we know of who really leveraged "branding" 

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[00:28:45] to create a company. So he won this like pottery contest. You know hosted by Queen Charlotte in England And after he won he started writing on all of his pottery or calling it Queens w ear like okay that's what branding branding is I mean that's but that's not real real It's it's a it's an identity but it's not real It's just he's dead Now How long since dad his company quote unquote lives on but it's really an idea. It's an identity It's a perception that people have And I would just say this especially for those of us who are looking to build companies or nonprofits that are mission-driven what I've seen Sean in in the last couple of years in this space where people are going more active on social media and all these things I see this space play out in two ways and neither of them are really good Right the first group of people celly false version of themselves They think that that image or that perception alone is going to get some of the results or the attention they want And those folks don't realize you have to earn attention It's not OTT You have to earn it an extreme example Like in my industry there are a lot of people who do this They rent out some mansion on Airbnb

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[00:29:56] a photo shoot and

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[00:29:58] they pretend like it's their house ridiculous The flip side of it is you lie You just present a false version of yourself and you overshare In the name of authenticity and they talk nonstop about the problems or the issues Sometimes they reveal way much more than what's even comfortable to read about And it's like those people are trying to sell their struggles. And it doesn't work It's like a car wreck. They get attention but it's like very short lived. So To just tie a bow on this I I present this simple question as a litmus test for how you're going to build your brand and the face of your organization your company. Can I build a campfire around what I'm sharing?

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[00:30:39] Ask yourself that. And what I mean by that is is there warmth? Are you building something that's attractive and inviting to others? Can you build a community around it? Are you someone whom others like one to invite onto their stages or in front of their employees or into their lives? As I've grown through the years I never really had language to put to it content that I share the podcasts that I create that I launched I just want to be able to create stuff that other people can feel invited to. That there is a community around it. And that's how you start movements. It's up to you how you want to launch your movement, some people have built  entire movements around really bad things. But for those of us who are listening Here Like we I believe want to do good in the world. Ask yourself how do I build a campfire on this And then go from there.

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[00:31:38]Sean: 

[00:31:38] That's a good question to pose like Can we build I mean allude back to like one of our first gatherings that you and I had with some other colleagues and friends of ours was around the campfire. And that was what two and a half years ago or something three years ago And to this day people I've met around that campfire is some of the most meaningful relationships I have in not just my career but my personal life. And that's just like an analogy for what if we were able to build that experience around their companies or their businesses around brands so that's a good question 

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[00:32:10] To  close I'm just curious what are ways that you feel like in your business what are ways that you are able to bring some of the things that you care about  into what you do?

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[00:32:21]Mike: 

[00:32:21] I think what I have learned now about myself Sean is that I have a certain set of skills. And there are other industries or other people in other industries that could really benefit from those skills. One of the things I've done over the last four or five years is partner with a friend of mine named Mary Valloni. And Mary is a fundraising consultant and she has a heart to help nonprofits raise money. She's worked with the American Cancer Society the Special Olympics the ALS Association and we just providentially met You know and it was just like we hit it off

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[00:32:57] and we started a training company.  Teaching folks how to raise money. So she does the fundraising strategy side of things and I do the marketing and messaging side of things 

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[00:33:07] like peanut butter and jelly.

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[00:33:09]Sean: 

[00:33:09] I love it

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[00:33:09] Mike: 

[00:33:09] a great combination No You can't really see this stuff on my site or in my brain I just kind of keep it separate because it's a separate entity. And it's not really the main thing of what I do. But it's a passion project It's something really important to me. It makes my life more rich.

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[00:33:28] Because I feel like I'm directly using my skills and talents You know to serve people that I don't necessarily have the ability to serve full-time because I love entrepreneurship I love businesses love solopreneurs. That's where I really feel like I can thrive and be my best self. But I also don't want to withhold my gifts and withhold my talent or experience. So I was fortunate enough to find a partner  who does love that space and partner with her And that relationship with Mary has been like a rocket ship 

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[00:34:05] to really really make an impact really funny to full circle Yeah it talks about how I used to work at a church And for many many years I really looked back on that and I was like maybe I made the wrong decision. Here I am now like 7-8 years later 

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[00:34:23] I'm helping thousands more people a significantly better way  I'm really influencing and impacting people who are going out there and making a difference. So  that was an internal thing for me to You know wrestle with over the years. But I look at this now and I'm comfortable with the chaos and 

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[00:34:43] with not knowing and you know you had said Hey you're always moving around You're always doing things You know and I just recently thought about this and I posted it but it's the routine of chaos And really understanding that I really do love uncertainty and I love variety And I used to think that the more mature path was to settle down and do one thing. We're being one career being one place. But now I really love that I'm built this way because it's allowed me to help People that most other people aren't Able to help Because I was comfortable with risk. Yeah So I just I still enjoy the routine of chaos. 

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[00:35:24] Sean: 

[00:35:24] So good. I think there's probably people listening today that. Don't they don't really feel like there was like a path laid out for them where there's like, oh, you can option one or option two, or option three. Like, what career do you want to go down? And, you know, they feel like maybe they're someone like us who has to kind of pave their own way towards uncertainty. I think it's, it's important. And so thanks for sharing that. I love that. I mean, I think it's a Testament to. You know, your humility in that you are involved in some of these things, no one even knows about, and it's purely out of passion and out of generosity and you've been generous with us on the podcast today with sharing these experiences. So thank you so much. And as we wrap up, is there anything. Else that you want to share or any final takeaways?

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[00:36:02]Mike: 

[00:36:02] Yeah I'm just grateful for the platform to be able to share some of these thoughts If you want to follow up a little bit more on this got a book coming out It's called You Are The Brand and a lot of the stuff that I shared today is based on stuff that I've distilled You know aggregated into this book It's an eight step blueprint To help you showcase your unique expertise And to be the face of your business right. This is the world that we live in today. Everyone really has their own brand.  Whether you're business or not But if you're really interested in building a business around your brand, your personality, your ideas, your expertise, reputation, your message I'd love for you to check out the book and you can get it at youarethebrandbook.com just listen to the podcast. Find me on Instagram I'm everywhere but that's where the book is 

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[00:36:52] Sean: 

[00:36:52] awesome. Cool. Well, we'll definitely have links to All of the information about that. Mike does shared you can go to the website and look at his book. He's @MikeKimTV on. All of the social media is you can visit this website@mikekim.com and they've been a lot more active on YouTube lately. So if you want to search for Mike on YouTube. But Mike, thank you so much. It was really fun hanging out with you on a podcast today.

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[00:37:14] Mike: 

[00:37:14] It was a pleasure. Thanks for having me. 

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[00:37:29]Sean: 

[00:37:29] All right. Well, that really fun episode with Mike, some really good things in there. I know we kind of jumped to a few different topics, but man, it really did feel like it came full circle for me, not just because, um, you know, my first podcast interview I ever did was on Mike's podcast, but really these. Exercises that we talked about in the episode are things that I literally did when I was making my own career pivot or transition.  So if you're listening to the show today and you're on this journey of starting your own business or you're starting an initiative or working on a project that is really important to you. I really encourage you to do one of these things that Mike talked about. You might just be frustrated working every day and you're kinda miserable, take out your phone and take that statistic selfie like Mike talked about, and I'll literally post my photo of mine.

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[00:38:28]Just take that photo because, looking back at yourself and what everyone else sees and looking at it for the first time was a really eyeopening experience for me. I look at that photo pretty regularly and it reminds me of what I left behind. And I'm really thankful that I made the trends I did and I'm really thankful. I took that photo to remind myself and if you feel stuck right now and you have a lot of self doubt of, Hey, I know I want to maybe go move into this direction or this field or this industry, but I don't feel like I have the skills that are required, do the exercise of write down the things that you do.

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[00:39:05] In a given day or week or year in your current job or your current role, your current career, and do what Mike said, write down exactly what you do and cross off the end things like he said, if you, uh, lead workshops, like make sure you write that down.

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[00:39:23] If you're someone who is regularly speaking or leading at events or managing a staff, or even like on a technical level, like you're someone who manages databases or whatever these things are, write them down. So, you know, the breadth of what your job really requires of you, because it's probably a lot more that's in your job description.

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[00:39:46] And I promise you so much of that skill. And those responsibilities translate into where you want to be. And my guess is you're probably a lot more qualified for that upcoming role or that new direction that you want to go in then you think you are.

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[00:40:03] So, thanks so much for tuning into this episode. Next week, we have an awesome interview with Fran Cresswell. Who's the founder of Get Offset and definitely tune into that one. And if you like what you heard today, uh, it would mean the world to me. If you would jump on Apple podcasts or iTunes and leave a short review. So thanks again. See you next week.  

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